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News/Business. Interviews with newsmakers and politicians; host Joe Scarborough.












Us 45, Florida 26, Washington 18, New York 16, America 15, Rubio 13, United States 11, China 10, Mika 9, Neutrogena 8, Charlie Crist 8, Pat Buchanan 7, Vrrroooooomm 7, Msnbc 7, U.s. 7, Gm 7, Barack Obama 6, Willie 6, Pat 6, Russia 6,
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  MSNBC    Morning Joe    News/Business. Interviews with  
   newsmakers and politicians; host Joe Scarborough.  

    April 22, 2010
    6:00 - 8:59am EDT  

amy, amy, amy, two weeks, you've got a long way to go. i'll be here to guide you through it. don't worry, you can sleep in 18 years when she goes to college. >> walt from simpsonville, south carolina, i had to get up early to study for a year-end test and i thought i'd share the time with you. >> i'd share something with you. golden seal, go buy yourself some. "morning joe" starts right now.
>> mika, look how beautiful you are. sitting there in your size 2 dress. we have all noticed your passion and dedication to good health. a strong and consistent message of better eating and more exercise. and i would like to say on behalf of all the middle-aged, overweight women in america, just shut up. >> claire mccaskill. >> morning, everyone. >> that was rough. >> it was a little -- it was edgy. she obviously has strong feelings about that. i do, too, about our health in this country. >> stop. just stop. >> she's right. she's right.
>> you know, i love when somebody says, what everybody else is thinking, and claire did just that. so, a big show ahead today. tim geithner will be coming in. >> i can't wait to ask him about financial reform. that's going to be exciting. he's coming in on the set, right? >> right. speaking of financial reform, at the event last night, we spoke to an awful lot of senators who basically said this bill is going to pass, it's on the front page of "the washington post." the senate is moving closer to financial reform. >> it was a nice event. this was the press club foundation. it was -- >> the congressional debt? >> gosh, a lot of folks showed up on both sides, congress and the media as well. so, it was fun. it was good. you did a good job. >> yeah. >> making people be quiet. >> if you ever emceed an event in washington, d.c., the crowds are some of the -- >> rudest. >> -- rudest in the world. >> they talk. >> they clinic around, mouths
full, you're trying to talk. >> lamar alexander gave me a little trick to shut up a crowd of 1600. >> he was just kidding. he didn't want joe to do it. >> because nobody would do this. >> but i did it. we're going to show you in a little bit what it is. if you want to quiet 1500 gabers. >> immediately. >> dead silence, pin drop quiet. >> i got the trick. >> it's also rude. and wrong. >> i've had it for about ten minutes, but i haven't brought it up. i keep talking. >> you're so cool, you just go with it. nobody bothers you. good morning, it's thursday, april -- did you all know it's earth day? >> that's why i'm wearing green. >> i see that. we have pat buchanan with us and norah o'donnell as well as willie geist in new york. where's willie? >> why isn't willie in new york? >> where's the shot? >> is he sleeping? >> seriously. >> missing in action. >> he's on your couch in your
office. >> probably is. >> we'll get to news and -- >> please, we'll do a search for willie geist. >> well, i know where he is. president obama heads to new york today to bring his push for financial reform to wall street. in a speech at cooper union college about two miles from wall street, the president is expected to call on banks to get behind the legislation that now appears headed for a senate vote next week. in an interview with cnbc's john harwood yesterday, the president addressed his questions -- the questions over his administration's connections to wall street, specifically goldman sachs. the securities and exchange commission alleges the firm deliberately misled clients who bought complex mortgage-related products. >> first of all, i got a lot of money from a lot of people. the vast majority of money i got was from small donors all across the country. moreover, anybody who gave me money, knew i was on record, again in 2007 and 2008, pushing very strongly that we needed to
reform how wall street did business. and so, nobody should be surprised in the position i'm taking now because it's one that i was very clear about during the course of the campaign. we released financial reform as a package over a year ago. and so, we're not johnny-come-latelys to this thing. and the s.e.c. is an entirely independent agency that we have no day-to-day control over and they never discussed with us anything with respect to the charge that will be brought. so, this notion that somehow there would be any attempt to interfere in an independent agency is completely false. >> reporter: you could say categorically no winks, no heads up in -- >> categorically. >> reporter: no signal from anyone -- >> categorically. we found out about it on cnbc. >> all right. norah, so, this is going to pass, right? financial reform bill?
>> it is. it may pass with as many as 70 votes according to some republicans who say they're going to get on board with it. wow, what a remarking departure from the health care reform debate. >> to doubt. pat buchanan, if you're the president you can start telling democrats, we can go to voters this fall and say, we passed health care reform. we talk on wall street, passed wall street reform. he could roll up some wins here that could ease the democrats' pain. >> possibly. as we talked yesterday, the health care reform thing seemed to be going south on him even after he passed it, as a political issue. there's no doubt he can say, look, we have a record of accomplishment. there's no question about it. he can say, look, i'm a successful executive and a successful president. you may not like what we did but we got done what we said we would do. >> but he's running on this reform message, right? even though he doesn't want to talk about health care reform anymore because it's tanking and has tanked, it's financial reform. he'll get republicans on board
on that. he can stand up there as a bipartisan sort of president. look, i got republicans on board on this. i'm leading. it would be interesting to see if there's a tick up in the polls after he gets this done next week because i think there's widespread agreement that it's out of control, what's happening on congress. >> a tick up for the congress of the united states. this looks to me, quite frankly, as mika has been saying, like fairly small -- >> everyone has -- >> $50 billion has been dumped out. i mean, what is -- are they going to separate these derivatives and all this stuff from the banks? are they going to get casinos out of the banks? do they have the volcker rules, which are big stuff? i don't see that in this thing. >> look, i -- i think this is an easy one for both sides. it's what the people, quoete, want. but i'm not sure it is really what they need. let's get to the next story which applies. strong signals this morning that financial reform is within reach after the passage of a key vote. yesterday the senate agriculture
committee approved ledge thags that would put tough new curbs on derivatives, the tools at the heart of the 2008 financial crisis. that bill was backed by iowa's charles grassley marking the first time in this session of congress that a senate republican has joined with democrats in favor of key financial legislation. the white house is touting general motors' early repayment of billions of dollars in government loans. earlier this week, the automaker repaid the $5.8 billion balance of its outstanding loan five years ahead of schedule. yesterday, the obama administration framed it as validation of the controversial decision to bail out the company with taxpayer funds. according to economic adviser larry summers, this was, quote, no accident of history. rather, the result of considered and politically difficult decisions. >> you know, i was watching larry kudlow last night, who is -- larry is bullish on america. he keeps talking about this v-shaped recovery but i heard the gm news. of course, i was excited.
you know how much i love gm like brother buchanan over here, so that was great news. as he dug in a little deeper he explained, this is 10% of the repayment. pat, the government still ow owns -- >> 60%. >> -- 60% of gm and they're going to have to have an ipo next year of $60 billion, according to larry kudlow and others on the show last night, to stop us from owning general motor. that's a long way to go. that being said, i really was excited to see the news out of detroit yesterday. that gm, they seem to be on the road back. >> five years ahead of schedule. >> i will say this, though, gm, unlike some of these banks, they wiped out the leadership of gm. they wiped out 1,000 dealerships. . they wiped out 20,000 employees. it's terrible, but no doubt, gm took a tremendous hit that some of the guys on wall street never took. >> and how did they do it? they did it with cost containment. they made tough choices.
that's really a great thing. i'm telling you, gm is coming back. and, of course, what was so great about last night is when all the analysts were talking about the threats to general motors, they weren't talking about toyota or nissan or bmw. their biggest problem, ford. >> yeah. >> so we once again have american companies competing against american companies. >> with all the kind of complaints we have about lack of innovation and growth, this is a nice, bright spot. >> the other good news. electi the lexus rolls over. >> pat! >> stop it. >> pat! terrible. i'm moving on. >> you're happy about that, pat. next you're going to hope that bmws, when they get tapped in the back, they blow up. >> accelerator sticks, come on. >> sometimes you don't say what you're thinking, pat. the coast guard is searching the waters off louisiana this morning, looking for 11 oil
workers after an explosion rocked an offshore oil rig late tuesday night. authorities are holding out, hope the workers escaped in one of the platforms-covered life boats. 17 other workers were injured in this explosion. four are in critical condition. we'll follow that. and about 80% of flights are operating at europe's biggest airports after nearly a week of disruptions from volcanic ash in iceland. as airlines scramble to move stranded passengers they're questioning regulators' response to the crisis and whether or not flights could have resumed sooner. analysts estimate industry losses will top $2 billion from a week of limited service. it's a big hit, but, i mean, are you going to criticize them from being careful? >> i know. >> i don't think so. >> they should have sent planes up there for people that wanted to fly through the volcanic ash? how many people would say, yes, i'm willing to do that? >> they had to be careful. and this, sue loudon -- >> shoes running against harry
reid. >> yes, she is. republican front-runner against harry reid of nevada is pitching a unique way to pay for health care. take a look at this. >> people walk into a doctor's office and the first thing they ask you for is your insurance card. >> yes, they do. >> you say, i don't have one. can i speak to the doctor -- >> they want that insurance card. >> yes, they do. let's change the system and talk about what the possibilities are. i'm telling you that this works. you know, before we all started having health care, in the olden days our grandparents would bring a chicken to the doctor. they would say, i'll paint your house. they would do -- i mean, that's the old days of what people would do to get health care with their doctors. doctors are very sympathetic people. i'm not backing down from that system. >> so, she's ten points ahead of the majority leader, by the way, which tells you how the majority leader's doing. do you remember that, back at
the turn of the century, is that how your parents did it? >> we had a barter system. >> you would give a chicken to the doctor. >> the plumber would work on his house and stuff lining that, a long, long time ago. >> so, what's she suggesting? >> i don't know. >> is it the chicken approach? >> i don't think it works in the modern era, but -- >> how many chickens for a heart bypass? i mean, seriously. >> give me the whole coop. we'll have to put that in perspective. certainly a frightening video. that light willing, it was just -- >> well, be nice. up next, a behind-the-scenes preview of obama's wall street speech coming up. politico when we come back. we're watching some showers and storms passing off the coast but nothing too bad. a happy earth day to everyone. as far as the sunshine goes
today, it should be plentiful from the southeast up through the mid-atlantic. boston, hartford areas of rhode island, showers and storms late this afternoon. they'll be in and out. bring the umbrella with you. you'll barely need it. we'll watch severe weather and possibly tornadoes in the middle of the country. the first severe weather. today from oklahoma city just outside of ft. worth back towards amarillo. forecast looks like this, as we go throughout the afternoon. stormy weather, denver, kansas city later today down towards dallas. chicago, you're dry today. but not for tomorrow. how beautiful is that in the southeast for your earth day? get outside and try to enjoy what should be a beautiful lunch hour. you're watching "morning joe." looks like a foggy start there around d.c. brewed by starbucks. [ diane lane ] when you were 14 you knew exactly where to turn
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the government said today those somali pirates being held in custody will be brought to the united states and tried by a jury of their peers. so i'm guessing that's goldman sachs? >> welcome back. let's take a look at "the morning papers" starting with "the washington post." pakistani military is holding thousands of militants in indefinite detention arguing the injustice system cannot be trusted. u.s. officials fear it could undermine support for the counterinsurgency. "the washington times" -- nearly six months before the midterm elections, an internal investigation by the rnc has revealed the organization is beset with questionable financial management and oversight and is spending more
money, quoting top dollar donors, than it raises. you put this together with the florida story and at some point americans will start saying, wait a second, people say democrats can't control money and they can't keep their own house clean. the atlanta jurnl constitution, general electric, the parent company of msnbc, will create 0 # 0 new high-paying jobs in the atlanta area. that's where ge will locate its $15 million smart grid center of excellence. a project that could establish metro atlanta as a focal point for the green energy industry. the "usa today" -- a shining star or a flop in the making? former gators quarterback tim tebow is considered a wild card in tonight's draft. he's aiming to prove his doubters wrong and many believe he's going to be selected by jacksonville. just the name alone will fill up that stadium. tim tebow is, seriously, just worshipped in the state of florida. i can't think of another athlete that has been so revered, since
archie manning in mississippi back in -- >> why are they holding up -- why is he not a first draft pick or a second draft pick? >> well, he's just not. >> the guy from stanford, the quarterback -- >> he's just not an nfl-style quarterback. >> you've been down on middle-aged sportscasters pushing him for a very long time. >> they have pushed him for a very long time. you spend five minutes with this guy, he'll change your life forever, so says the sports guys. no, tim tebow, and willie geist is up in new york, he'll -- i think he'll concur with me here that what made tim tebow such a threat is you never knew when he was going to pass or tuck it up and run up the middle like a fullback. it's one thing running over a guy from nc state that weighs 225 pounds that's a middle linebacker. it's another thing running over a middle linebacker that weighs 578 pounds and has a vertical leap of like ten feet. >> yeah, that's been the knock on him. whether or not he can throw like a pro quarterback.
so, he's been working on his delivery and all that in these camps. you're right, the jacksonville jaguars are in trouble financially because no one goes to their games so they might pick him purely as a business decision because he's so wildly popular in that state. >> he is. again, quarterbacks that run in college, there's a reason they don't run in the nfl. the notable exception, michael vick, who used to make great defenders look like children. >> right. >> but, two, three years into it, got injured. those guys are too big, too fast, to powerful. they will bust a quarterback's knees. tebow will be limited -- >> sam bradford will be number one, the fellow from sanford, and he's a passer, right? >> bradford is a great guy but that's dangerous. this guy's shoulder completely passed on a moderate hit against texas halfway through the season. >> let's take a look inside "the
politico playbook." mike allen is here with us. >> focal point of the cover story of "the new york times" magazine this weekend. mark calls you -- >> a friend of "morning joe." >> sure. >> calls you the most powe powerful guy -- >> short of "morning joe." >> love it. >> so, yesterday the old media still has s.w.a.t., yesterday after "the new york times" posted that, 7300 new subscribers to politico playbook. >> congratulations. >> what are you looking senate what are these 7300 people that woke up, what do they wake up to? >> the president's speech. the white house tells us he's not going to scold wall street as he thought. he's going to think about the main audience, people watching out in america, so wall street's a little backdrop. they invited all the top banking heads, including the head of goldman sachs, to be there.
instead, the president is going to send a message that says, look, you can be pro-free enterprise, i am. you can be pro-business, i am. but you can still be pro-regulation, that if the free market runs wild we get what we did a couple years ago. >> mike, is this a constituency, other than wall street executives and workers and mayor bloomberg, who's doing what any mayor of new york city would do, is there any constituency out there that's going to be angered by this bill? >> well, anybody who depends on the wall street banks, you know, the firefighters, policemen, all the people in new york. the mayor warns that that could make a difference for them. but there's such more of a constituency, and you can see this in the republican statements, so much more of a constituency to do something. people don't know what it is. 30% of people say they don't have an opinion on financial reform. the real number is more like 70%. but, the president is gambling that people want action. in the midterms in 2012 he wants
to be able to say, i didn't just let this go, i did something. >> jonathan martin's working on a piece in politico. tell us about it. >> he's writing his monthly piece in politico -- >> my goodness. >> wow. >> no. >> that's chilly. >> my goodness. >> double-teaming it, jay martin and ben smith bringing -- >> double-teaming it, you mean he doesn't write one by himself a month. i would certainly take that as a shot across the bow. >> oh, yeah. cover in the new york times magazine, look at you, my -- >> he's picked up on a rant, that you disagree with, but they're making the point that the media overteas the tea party. tea partiers have given more -- >> i agree with that. >> oh, good. and they pointed out a great reason, which is that we were slow, as we all admitted, to get onto the anger last year. we were slow to get onto the august health care craziness and now we're overcorrecting, overdoing it.
>> and i think television, in order to portray what is the anger out there in america, the easiest way to portray that in pictures is to see a mob or a large group of people protesting. that that's the easiest way to represent it. doesn't mean it's the right way but a difficult way to sort of touch base with what is that deep-seeded anger out there -- >> the media has totally missed this story yeah, norah, you're right in part because they find the angry sign and suddenly everyone foams at the mouth. they don't understand the quiet disappointment a lot of americans have. i want to follow occupy this reporting because it's exactly right. we were talking about it in the car on the way over here. a couple weeks ago "the new york times" had that huge front page article with all the polls. chris kept saying g to the tea party polls. go to the tea party polls. i kept i guess foreing him, swatting him away because this is -- the reason why was -- >> it's not "morning chris" after all. >> we have to swat him away at times. >> exactly what he was saying.
it was like, this is mainstream media overreacting to the fact they ignored this story last year when they should have been focusing on it more. so, i think maybe they're overplaying it. the fact is, they don't get it and they don't get it because most of us live in washington or manhattan. >> whenever you get an administration which is liberal in power, i remember lbj came in, it's always thunder on the right, bad moon rising out there, all these terrible people out there are coming in. tv especially, what can they cover in a rally? a couple guys in the ramally, you have a is sign with a hitler mustache on obama. let's put that on air for millions of people -- >> but i will say, "nbc nightly news" on saturday night covered the tea party rally in the midwest and they just did like five sound bites, actually ran them long, listening to normal people talking about why they're there, why they traveled there and who they are. >> most of america has a
positive view of these tea party people, despite the fact they've had a horrible press, i think, certainly on tv. >> and you're right, mike. now the mainstream media seems to be looking clumsy in overreacting. >> and people are tuning it out. a third of people don't know much about the tea partiers and a third are not afraid because of the reasons you talked about. >> mike allen, thank you very much. it was good to see you last night out on the town. coming up a little later, joe's going to show how he can make an audience quiet. also coming up, treasury secretary timothy geithner will be here on the set. when we come back, the nfl issues a stinging punishment against ben roethlisberger. plus, an incredible play at the plate you don't want to miss. sports is next. "morning joe" now on the radio. broadcasting live on satellite radio, sirius 90/xm 120. we'll be right back. [ vrrroooooomm! ]
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welcome back to "morning joe." it's just after 6:30 on the east coast. time for a look at some of today's top stories. we'll start in israel. more tension in the middle east today after a jordanian security source says two rockets were fired from a port city towards israel. the rockets landed on an empty warehouse in jordan and no reports of damage or injuries. israel's military has not commented so far on the rockets. iran announced this morning that the country's revolutionary guard has started three days of large scale war games in the waterway of hormuz. it is crucial for 80% of the world oil supply. iran holds military maneuvers every year this year's games could heighten tensions with
washington. and nasa scientists are getting a better picture of what happened on the sun. literally. they unveiled the first images from a new solar satellite. that's cool. it's goal is to predict solar storms, which can disrupt satellites and even knock out power grids on earth. let's go to willie geist. willie, a lot to talk about in sports. baseball last night, the yankees keep winning. the red sox are, i guess, second night in a row, late-night heroics but you're looking at big ben. he could be in big trouble. >> very interesting. remember, the district attorney in georgia last week announced no charges would be brought against roethlisberger in that case where a 20-year-old college student accused him of sexual misconduct in the bathroom of a nightclub. no charges, but the nfl not quite as forgiving. commissioner roger goodell suspended roethlisberger for the first six games. that is a big suspension in a six-game season of this season without pay for violating the
nfl's personal conduct policy. this is a subjective policy, the league reserves the right to punish its players for off-the-field conduct. basically we're suspending you for being a dirt bag. he was ordered to undergo a comprehensive behavioral evaluation. goodell will evaluate roethlisberger's progress. goodell was in new york yesterday and talked about the suspension. >> it's about the privilege of playing in this league. and when you -- you know, when you conduct yourself in a way that brings a negative reaction from our fans, from everybody involved in the league and reflects poorly on yourself and the team and the nfl, that's what the personal conduct policy is. you don't have to be convicted of a crime. you're going to be held accountable to that standard. >> so, joe, if he serves the full six games it will cost him $2.8 million and a lot of nfl players around the league
saying, this is a little harsh for a guy who has not been convicted of anything. >> i was just going to say, and we certainly don't indict the entire nfl, but you and i both know there are a lot of players who have done things such as big ben, i'm not defending him, but there appears to be a new sheriff in town with goodell. this is tough. if that much money doesn't send chills up and down the spine of bad actors in the nfl, i don't know what would. i understand the rooneys in pittsburgh don't want him anymore. they're shopping him, may send him to oakland raiders. >> with the six-game suspension and the aura around him is not good. they may be able to unload him, but not for much. some players, joe, if you read around -- like espn today, around the blogs they're saying, look, you could have people coming out of the woodwork accusing us of doing anything, even if it's not true, no criminal charges are brought,
just because there's suspicious of something you'll suspend us and take money out of our pockets. >> you and i both know, nfl players, there are a subset that behavior horrificallhorrificall. i think this sends a strong message, if you want to play in the nfl, you better hold yourself to a higher standard. >> yep. that's a pretty serious fine he took there. the three-day nfl draft marathon starts tonight. st. louis rams have number one pick. a lot of people say that will be the oklahoma quarterback sam bradford. an amazing play to show you from baseball last night. college baseball, that is. fordham and iona, a bases clearing double, first two runs cross the plate easily. but watch the last one. the ball beats the runner to home. he has nothing to do but this. up and over. unbelievable. he goes, does a full flip over the catcher. >> that is very -- >> catcher doesn't know -- he landed on his back. his back landed on home plate and he was safe. great effort by that guy.
>> i love it. >> willie, let me ask you about the draft. sam bradford, the last injury he took, he took on a moderate hit. don't you think the rams are taking a huge risk with this guy? >> yeah, you would think so because he had reconstructive shoulder surgery, but these guys really put the players through the paces. they must be confident he's fully healed. he looks fragile to me but we'll see. >> tim tebow, does he go first round? does jacksonville take the jump? >> i think he'll go second or third round. people don't know quite want to do with him in the nfl. >> thank you, willie. what's coming up next, willie? >> this is a great story, guys. it's a muslim group issuing a stern warning -- well, a death threat, let's say it, to the creators of "south park ". we'll tell you why and how comedy central has responded. jonathan capehart will join you for a look at mika's must read opinion pages. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. national car rental knows i'm picky.
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♪ welcome back to "morning joe." that was a lovely event last night, national press club. >> people, at the very beginning, very rude. they talk and talk. we've all been -- >> the poor guy introducing us. >> people just keep yammering -- >> clanking their dishes. >> you couldn't hear anything. >> what are you doing at the podium. >> lamar showed me a trick of
how to quiet a crowd. >> he was kidding. >> nobody would be stupid enough to do it, but me. this is what we did to quiet the crowd. >> let us pray. let us pray. we could all bow our heads, please. and give -- it's a southern trick to get you to shut up. thank you. and keep shutting up or i'm going to deliver a sermon for those of you in the back. thank you, amen. do i hear an amen? and all the people said amen will show little respect tonight. >> okay. >> so, it works. so, you guys take that with you in washington. lamar alexander told me -- >> and then he told me, i didn't
expect he would actually do it. >> but it worked. look who's here, right before he jets off to venice. >> oh, isn't that nice. >> yes, thanks, joe. >> the paparazzi will be lined up -- >> where are you staying? i'll give you the keys to my chalet. >> do you have them on you because i'll take them. >> she's feeding into the stereotype. pat, you and i if we're lucky, we go to mcgomery county -- >> ocean city, maryland. >> i'm staying at the travel lodge. >> oh, sure you are. >> jonathan, must read op-eds. looks like financial reform is going through and mika has an op-ed. >> obama pulls out his boxing gloves in california. democrats clearly see financial reform as a winner. either way. with republican cooperation, they have a bill. with republican obstruction, they have an election issue. for once democrats are negotiating from strength. no one doubts that the democrats
are in a deep electoral hole but obama has now joined the battle with a strategy that to transform the election from a referendum on his own party into a contest with the republican party, the public doesn't much like either. but, here's the issue, if they are negotiating from strength, joe, jonathan, pat, norah, why don't they do more with this? >> well, let's, first of all just say, if the other side doesn't fight, there's not going to be a battle. nor norah, bob cork said -- >> 70 to 80 votes. >> there's going to be no fight here because it looks like everybody's jumping on board. >> they're jumping on board because everyone knows, as we've talked around this table for months, the economy and getting wall street under control is something that the american people want. remember, when we were saying, why is the president focusing on health care? it's jobs and the economy and wall street. and now that it's happening, that they're focused on, it the republicans are getting on
board. we saw earlier this week where the gop, they tried to fight, but that fight lasted all of, what, a half day, before they realized that, you know, this is just a fight we probably can't win -- >> pat, pat -- >> republicans are very smart. >> who's going to defend wall street here when, as you say, a lot. populist on the right, most of the tea partiers are with the most progressive democrats. >> i don't think anybody really knows what's in this bill, quite frankly, out in the country. clearly, being anti-wall street reform is a good thing. republicans are very smart, joe. don't give obama victory. give him a by. this is a nothing bugger. that's what the republicans are saying. we'll go along. we can get 80 votes. >> the republicans also need something to campaign on november. they can't be the party of no. they have to be the party of yes, too. so this gives them something to campaign on in november that they, too, are for something, reform and cleaning up wall
street. >> they'll say, yeah, we're with reform but they'll go after him in nothing. >> the nothing burger, pat, does this go far enough -- >> does it prevent the biggest problem. >> i'm with mika on this thing. basically, i think they ought to take the casinos out of the banks. >> you don't think the -- >> no, i don't think is does. i agree with the volcker rules, quite frankly. >> explain the volcker rule. >> basically, he talks about these derivatives, talks about all these other things that nobody understands, including these bank executives. they're at enormous risk. they did nothing for us. they didn't exist in the '50s and '60s. take all that gambling going on and get it away from the banks and make the banks -- >> how do you do that? >> you have to separate it out and say you can't be involved in it. this is what volcker was trying to say. >> that's what blanche lincoln is trying to do. >> the late 1990s volcker says, separate it. >> it's not clear because i've asked this question to senators, whether this bill would prevent what the s.e.c. is accusing goldman of doing, which is
essentially setting up this sham operation, bundling together mortgage securities and have paulson bet against them. the answer i've gotten is no. but it would provide more transparency, because, you know, transparency -- the question i have is, transparency -- i get that stuff in the mail from your financial people, your 401(k). it's like, oh, my god, this just wasted another tree. let me throw it away. >> i don't understand it. >> i'm going to put up now a possible name, if things go well over the next year, for the 2012 republican sweepstakes. it's a man who would be the anecdote to barack obama -- >> i know what you're going to say. >> you want style, he doesn't have it. >> yep. >> you want big spending. he's not going to give it to you. you want somebody that's going to meekly go along with everything you want? this isn't your guy. >> you want someone really fit and healthy and muscular.
>> this isn't your guy. >> nope. >> because maureen dowd, this guy will eat the doughnut. >> he will get it, until i get my hands on him. >> who is new jersey governor chris christie? >> i agree with you. >> let me tell you something, i'm going to be honest, we had chris christie on our show, we sort of made fun of him. >> i love him. >> turn the music down. this is important. i'm dead serious here. we were -- i just could not believe that this guy would win. he's gotten in there. we've had him on since -- this is what he says, this is how republicans are supposed to talk and they haven't talked this way in a decade. >> and he doesn't prepare it. he just talks. >> he's walking the walk. >> that's right. >> he basically said, i am taking big spending government on. i'm taking public unions on. i'm taking everybody on. we're not going to allow this government to grow 20% a year, which it's done over the past two decades. george will talks about him. i'm telling you, if this guy
pulls it off in new jersey, chris christie has a big future. read this. >> really quick. the thunder from new jersey. new jersey's governors are the nation's strongest. americans caesars who can veto line items and rewrite leng latetive language. he's reminding new jersey that wealth goes where it is welcome and stayed where it is well treated. prosperous states are practicing at the expense of slow learners like new jersey entrepreneurial federalism competing to have the most enticing business climate. >> you talk about nothing burgers. a lot of these national republicans, pat, did nothing. did nothing. they've been zeros. they talk small government. they've allowed it to grow with the fastest rate ever. they have been a shameless hypocrites. chris christie is one of the few people i've seen really talking the talk, walking the walk. >> he got in there and he's done did. i mean, the guy has fought. he's been cutting and chopping. i just hope the whole thing works for him, quite frankly. >> if he has the courage to
carry through, he will -- >> let us pray. all right. coming up later, treasury secretary timothy geithner will be on the set of "morning joe." >> i love that. i'm going to use that one. we have news you can't use and it's actually news you can use. two tastes that go poorly together, cartoons and prophet muhamm muhammad. this time it's "south park" getting a threat from muslim group for its depiction of muhammad when "morning joe" comes right back.
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with progressive lenses for just $25 more per pair. ♪ well, look who's here. it's ellen. hey, mayor white. how you doing? great. come on in. would you like to see our new police department? yeah, all right. this way. and here it is. completely networked. so, anything happening, suz?
she's all good. oh, my gosh. is that my car? [ whirring ] [ female announcer ] the new community. see it. live it. share it. on the human network. cisco. oh, yes, willie, is it time? >> thank you, jonathan capehart. appreciate that. it is time, as a matter of fact, jonathan. it is time for -- the day pat does it is the day i walk off the set. it is time for "news you can't use" and this is actually a real sorry. i hate to bring you a real story
but we have one today. we've had so much trouble in the past with cartoons depicting the prophet muhammad and notice another one with "south park." i want you to watch this clip from "south park ". you won't see the prophet muhammad. take my word for it, he's inside the bear suit. >> the limo's here. muhammad, thanks again for doing this. >> you've done this town a huge favor, muhammad. >> hold on a second. stop! there's some extremists threatening that if we give muhammad to the celebrities, they're going to bomb us. >> now, the joke there was that you can't show muhammad in a cartoon, so the guys at "south park" put him in a bear suit. a website called saw this clip and issued this warning to matt stone and trey parker, the creators. we have to warn matt and trey that what they're doing is stupid and they will probably wind up like theo van gogh for airing this show. this is not a threat.
really. but a warning of the reality of what will likely happen to them. who is theo van gogh? he's the dutch filmmaker, made a movie suggesting that the muslim faith condones violence against women. he was stabbed and shot to death in 2004. so, tell me how that's not a threat? also part of the threat, they issued a link with some information about a home that stone and parker own together in colorado. also gave out the addresses of their studios in l.a. and of comedy central here in new york city. the head of the group said, the muslim group said, how is this a threat? we're showing a case study of what happened to another individual who conducted himself in a similar manner. it's just evidence. so, not a threat. last night they reaired the episode on comedy central with some censoring, perhaps spoofing the controversy already. >> you said you want [ bleep ]. we got him for you. >> we have no way of knowing if
[ bleep ] really in there. it can be a trick. >> you're supposed to be watching [ bleep ]. >> oh, thank god [ bleep ]. >> really sorry about all this, dude. >> by the way, just for context here. in that same episode they had jesus watching porn and buddah doing cocaine. that's just put that in perspective. >> i will say, willie, that these guys also, remember when they went after tom cruise. >> yep. >> and also went after scientology. matt and trey, frankly, my dear, just don't give a damn. you can threaten them. everybody has. one of my favorite stories about them is when they got a liberal group gave them some award. they said, we're just making fun of you. okay, let's pray. >> let us prap [ diane lane ] when you were 14 you knew exactly where to turn
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mika, i'm going to keep it short because i know you have a 4 a.m. wake-up call. i had the privilege of serving in the congress of the united states and being able to call joe scarborough colleague. we worked together on human rights issues throughout the world. we found our common ground. i'm so proud of his success. and i can't wait until tomorrow morning to see -- >> that's nice. >> to see what i was actually going to say. >> i think that was nice. the two of you had -- >> she's a friend. >> she is a friend. the night before you were talking to rahm. so lovely. you've had a good week, joe. >> let us pray. welcome back. it's the top of the hour. with us on the set in
washington, msnbc political analyst pat buchanan, columnist for "the washington post" and msnbc contributor, jonathan capehart, and washington correspondent for bbc world news america, katty kay. oh, my gosh, is halpern here, too? >> mike halpern in new york. >> i'm surprised. "time" magazine's mike halpern. good to have on you board. looks like financial reform's going to pass. bob cork saying maybe 70 to 80% of senators voting for it. we have the marco rubio -- >> that's in the post today. >> -- smackdown down in florida. we'll be talking to mark halperin about that. >> secretary geithner will be on the show. >> coming up. and katty kay, i promised my executive producer, i will not go deep in the weeds about british politics. one of the more fas fating elections over there in quite some time. >> fascinating because it's such
a close place. everybody wanted cameron to sweep this thing. >> hold on a second. chris said -- >> oh, okay. >> we're down in florida, cameron has great approval ratings. >> yes, he does. >> jonathan capehart with us. he's going to venice. and now here's mika with the news. >> to florida? >> no. >> let's take a look now at today's top stories. president obama heads to new york today to bring his push for financial reform to wall street. in a speech at cooper union college about two miles from wall street, the president is expected to call on banks to get behind the legislation that now appears headed for a senate vote next week. in an interview with cnbc's john harwood yesterday, the president addressed questions over his administration's connections to wall street, specifically goldman sachs. the securities and exchange commission alleges the firm deliberately misled compliant who bought complex mortgage-related products. >> first of all, i got a lot of money from a lot of people.
the vast majority was from small donors all across the country. moreover, anybody who gave me money during the course of my campaign knew that i was on record, again in 2007 and 2008, pushing very strongly that we needed to reform how wall street did business. and so, nobody should be surprised in the position that i'm taking now because it's one that i was very clear about during the course of the campaign. we released financial reform as a package over a year ago. and so, we're not johnny-come-latelys to this thing. we've been pushing hard throughout. s.e.c. is an entirely independent agency that we have no day-to-day control over and they never discussed with us anything with respect to the charge that will be brought. so, this notion that somehow there would be any attempt to interfere in an independent agency is completely false. >> reporter: so you could say categorically, no winks, no heads up in advance -- >> categorically.
>> reporter: -- no signal from anyone -- >> categorically. we found out about it on cnbc. >> pat buchanan, barack obama got more money from wall street than any candidate in american political history, more from the hedge funds, more from every monied interest on wall street than any political candidate ever. and yet he's standing up to them now. does this actually present an opening to republicans? >> sure. he got between $900,000 and $1 million generally out of goldman sachs in contributions, if you add them all together. he was the one that said blank fine and jamie dimon, great guys doing a great job up there. there is a install opening for republicans to go after, i think, to go after barack obama. republicans say, look, it's a losing hand in a poker game. looks like a losing hand. don't play it out. throw in your cards. let's get this hand over and move to another hand. >> katty kay, looks like
republicans are punting on this issue, voting along with it to take the issue -- >> i agree with pat. i wonder how much of a winner getting at obama for taking contributions from wall street really is because republicans don't want to be in the boat of bashing wall street. they've taken contributions, too, from wall street. and they don't want to be in position of either highlighting though contributions or starting to say one shouldn't take contributions from wall street because wall street is somehow bad. >> mark, is it a push for republicans and democrat as like on this issue? or is this a win for barack obama who can say reformed health care, i reformed wall street, i saved the economy. is he getting a list of accomplishments he can take to the voters this fall? >> i think they're headed that way. we talked the other day about the troop levels in iraq coming down by the end of the south and by election day. he is on track to say not that he did a rot of things to deal with the world economic crisis but he did a lot of things he said he would do. that's part of the republican calculus.
if they work with the president, as they know, history is the lesson here, the president gets most of the credit for things like that and republicans get to maybe stand at the signing ceremony. it's not going to help them in the fall. >> from wall street to florida politics, marco rubio yesterday morning came out that the irs and the fbi and also the u.s. attorney down there was looking into his finances. the past 24 hours have been fascinating. it looks like rubio and his team have been able to turn this story around on charlie crist. explain. >> well, there's a lot of moving parts here. everybody's focused on next friday, a week from tomorrow, which is the deadline for people to make decisions about how they want to appear on the ballot. charlie crist, we know, is seriously considering running as an independent. but that is not set in stone. amongst the moving parts, besides the fbi and irs looking at a lot of florida politicians, joe, as you know, is this swamp of florida politics. you've got a meeting tomorrow, friday, of the state party trying to figure out what to do
about their finances. you've got out there hovering this huge back and forth between the two camps. jeb bush, who does not particularly get along with charlie crist, hovering as a possible person who could weigh in with a huge following. finally, a man who appears in our boom "game changes," jim greer, former state party chairman. he left the party on bad terms, forced out of his job. hundreds of thousands have been spent by greer and others in the war behind the scenes of people putting out different information. some came out yesterday. more to come about who spent what on whom for when and why is all going to come out probably over the next week. that is the context in which charlie crist is making this decision. a very ugly typical florida situation. >> it is very ugly. typical for florida politics. mark, what's so fascinating is, you have both sides pointing at each other, suggesting when the news comes out it's going to hurt marco rubio. rubio saying it's going to hurt
charlie crist. for those who know florida politics, everybody i've talked to behind the scenes in the legislature says, both sides did things they don't want out in the public. again, i'm getting this from republican legislators who say there is some dirty, dirty laundry in there. and it's going to make both sides look very bad. >> that's why this meeting tomorrow is so interesting because there's all of these credit card records. the ones we've seen are extraordinary. they make michael steele look like a penny-pincher. huge spending on lots of stuff, including some pretty colorful stuff. both sides, as you say, joe, think the other candidate -- crist says rubio will fall. rubio says crist will fall. we could spend our weekend reading amex bill. >> and the party in florida has to be pretty happy right now. >> mr. meeks has been under the radar, way under it. they've got to be delighted with this. it smears -- >> and exactly where you want to be in florida, under the radar. >> what was mark saying about
jeb bush? i mean, is there some kind of possibility this problem could go that deep that they would have to go to somebody else? >> well, we'll wait and find out. >> is there a possibility that information comes out over the next week that requires republicans to go to jeb bush to run? >> well, or maybe jeb bush to be kingmaker. i don't know what the facts are. they're still emerging. as you suggested, the crist people say it's a matter of time. he's going to self-destruct. the rubio people say charlie crist is already a dead man walking. jeb bush has such a big following in florida. he does not want charlie crist to win this seat. i think that's pretty clear. he could play a huge role as really still the most prominent and popular figure in florida at a time when the party is such a mess. they've got a governor's race and a senate race there. this is not just the personalities. this is a big deal for november. >> my gosh. >> i need to explain something. it's crate to have mark halperin on here. there are several things in mark's book that he flushes out
that weren't talked about in real time in the campaign because nobody could ever nail stories down. and i think we're at one of these stages where everybody in tallahassee may be waiting for both of these figures to fall, because of stories that newspapers across florida and across america are investigating. again, we don't want to speculate. i'm only telling you -- let me put it this way, if you took the top reporter -- political reporters in florida and asked whether both of these guys could possibly go down, every one of them would say, yeah, there are stories out there that we're following that are bad news for both of these people. >> if you think about how quick rubio's rice has been, back in -- >> that's always the danger. >> he didn't have that period of really being tested. very much by the public. jeb bush has played it very smart, hasn't he? he hasn't actually come out form eland -- >> crist looks bad in this
light. he has the republican party against him. this looks vindictive toward rubio. i don't know what kind of future the guy would have in the republican party. does that suggest -- >> oh, he -- >> -- he's going to make his move and go independent by next friday? >> i've got to say, this is going to blow up. and it's going to be very ugly for all sides. i think that -- charlie's finished as a republican. there's to doubt. he's finished as a republican. and i think when this blows up, even if rubio is taken down at the same time, i think he could finish charlie off as well. >> he's got to go independent. >> then who runs for the republicans? >> we only have a week to question. a lot of people are quietly asking behind the scenes, does rubio make it -- do these stories come out before the florida deadline? and if they come out before the florida deadline, does rubio keep his head down and say, we're going to get through it and then run against meeks in
order to weather the storm? >> unless it's a complete bomb that blows him up, i think he does. >> oh, my god. >> mark halperin. >> the rubio people say quite emphatically he's done nothing wrong. they're happy to have these investigations. as we know, there's not -- not too many phrases you want associated with a candidacy than under federal investigation. the real wild card is what going on. these are preliminary investigations, as best we know. even in the end if rubio is cleared, that is a hard weight to run under if the fbi and the irs are asking him questions, even again if in the end he's cleared, that could be tough. as mika said, for a guy that's not very well defined or well known, despite the fact he's become a vessel for conservatives around the country. >> so, mark, would you -- >> for mark and joe, so we're talking about the possible of destruction of rubio and crist -- >> possible, possible. >> does that necessarily benefit
kendra meek? does-f they blow up does that mean he sails to victory? >> if nobody is left standing -- >> i guess -- >> if you put in another republican, can the republican still -- >> let me ask you this, mark halperin. of course, we remember a few years back when elly got in trouble after a qualifying date in new jersey. is is there the possibility of the republican party doing the same thing in florida if, after the qualifying date both of these candidates are just politically unviable? >> it's a great question. i confess i'm not familiar enough with the party rules or state rules. new jersey democratic party at that time was very strong. as you know, over the last few years the republican party of florida has gone from one of the strongest parties in either party -- one of the strongest state party in either party in the country to now a total mess. and so, what they could engineer without a strong leader is kind of up in the air, whatever the rules are. but, mika's in a position now to
win this. that was the improbable just a few weeks ago. >> and, mark, let me ask you if you've been -- are you hearing the same thing from other reporters and other political people in florida politics that i am, that they believe at some point this is going to blow up and damage both rubio and crist in a significant way? >> that's what the reporters think. they are good political reporters in florida, one of the few states left with strong political reporting across the state. they're going to be reading those amex records all weekend. >> jonathan capehart, thank you. >> thanks. >> see you next week. >> have a wonderful trip. >> send pictures. >> i'll send pictures. the data rates are going to kill me. still ahead, treasury secretary timothy geithner will be on the set. after the break, this morning's developing heated lines out of the white house. we'll bring in chuck todd live at the north lawn. plus, the very latest on a massive oil rig explosion in the gulf of mexico. the coast guard is racing to
find survivors. we'll have the latest on that. first, let's go to bill karins with a check of the forecast. >> you could see that fire in the visible satellite imagery yesterday in the gulf of mexico. it was that big. as far as the forecast this morning, fog from philly south wards down towards d.c. minor airport delay in philly right now of 45 minutes. dulles and reagan not showing too many issues. could be possible that fog will burn off and be a nice afternoon from d.c. northward through pittsburgh. isolated shower in boston. it will be quick. severe weather outbreak in the middle of the country. kansas city through denver and oklahoma city. you're the ones that are targeted. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.'re staying at this resort for free? how?
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♪ i was so excited for today's unveiling of the new $100 bill. they didn't just whip one out of a wallet and pass it around. the treasury department produced this slick video. jim? whoa, look at those high-end digital graphics and a 3-d strip. wait a second. wait a second. ya! that is nice. >> all right. let's bring in right now nbc news washington bureau chief, mark whitaker and msnbc political director and host of msnbc's "daily rundown," chuck todd. chuck, what do we impp to hear from the president today? >> reporter: in any ways, you
won't hear new policy. i think the way the white house views this, it's a closing argument. the way this week has gone -- look, on sunday and monday i think the assumption was, wow, this thing's going to become a partisan fight. just like health care. democrats on one side, republicans on the other. here we are already four days later. i think we know the ending of the movie, we just don't know how many republicans are crossing over at this point. it looks like they're pretty close to something. now this feature is being used as a closing argument as to why it's being done. it may be the last we hear from the president on this until he signs something. but this thing is moving, i think, much faster than anybody anticipated, even on monday of this week, joe. >> and, mark whitaker, the president is rolling up some legislative victories. could be good news for democrats in the fall. >> absolutely. first, he has health care. now he has this. it will be interesting to see the tone he takes in new york today because i was talking to somebody at the white house yesterday who was saying, they don't -- he doesn't really want too much of a watered down bill. and he's now in a position where
basically there are two categories of republicans. he's got the moderates, you know, what they call the usual suspects, olympia snowe, susan collins and then the more conservative republicans whoshging on this financial reform issue for a long time. shelby from alabama, chambliss, corker and so forth. they seem 90% of the way there but the question is, how much compromise do they have to do to get them all the way there? >> the president wants a tough erbil? >> i thi . >> he wants a tough bill but a bipartisan bill with teeth they would take that. we had one reversal of a narrative a few weeks ago which is the democrats can't get anything done. then they get health care done. then the conventional wisdom is, we're hopelessly divided. the only way he can govern is with democrats. then if he said we could get something done in a bipartisan fashion, then i think he looks
pretty good. >> and give a supreme court justice without a fight, there you go, everything's harmony -- >> they expect a fight on the supreme court justice. >> they won't be that lucky. they'll have a fight on the supreme court justice, whoever it is, right? >> reporter: i don't think there's going to be a big fight at all. in fact, i'm hearing that folks like jeff sessions, ranking republican, he is being very cooperative behind the scenes. you know, the republicans are in an interesting place. they don't want to upset the apple cart. they look at what the landscape is right now and they think, we don't need a new debate on the supreme court. we don't need to have a social debate. all of a sudden republicans are feeling good at how they are debating on the issue of the economy these days. they get to actually talk about the economy. a supreme court fight would bring them down the road of social issues. right now, they don't want to go down that road. >> really? >> reporter: so you can tell -- you can actually tell by the conversations, by the tone of this thing, look, if the president ends up with one of two front runners, garland or
kagan, he'll get 65 to 70 votes, this is done, pretty mooth sailing on the confirmation hearing, barring some unforeseen circumstance, and that's just fine with republicans i've talked to. because they want to have a conversation about the -- they feel like anything that distracts them from this conversation about the economy, health care, bailouts, all of this thing, the debt, actually ends up hurting them potentially in the fall because they finally found their voice on money. >> pat, it sounds like some republicans are -- want to just play up the clock to the fall. >> well, you know, any republican, frankly, that votes for a very liberal supreme court justice or does not stand up, i think, has got a real problem at the national level. i mean, supreme court is a gigantic issue for conservatives. i think elena kagan or this other individual they point up there, i think they're going to put over the coals. you have to do it for the party, quite frankly. a lot of conservatives that expect a fight. >> i was listening to what chuck
was saying and i just came back from kentucky last night, i was with rand paul and talking to folks down there -- >> by the way, how is that campaign going? >> he's 15 points up. he says -- >> in the primary? wow. >> he says it's going to be a miracle if he wins because the establishment candidate is behind him, mcconnell is working hard for grayson. when i speak to people in kentucky, they don't mention the supreme court fight. >> what are they talking about? >> the economy, a lot about the health care bill, they're talking about jobs and the deficit. they're not happy with washington. they're not happy with big spend pentagon. but supreme court is not on the radar. >> that's interesting. you know, one interesting thing we heard, you said it's important to conservatives, i remember hearing the story about barack obama wanting to vote for john roberts. but i think axelrod going to him and saying, you can't vote for john roberts because if you do, every single decision he makes between now and the election will be around your neck.
>> >> reporter: but, joe, i don't disagree with pat, but that's a presidential litmus test. there are two types of supreme court votes. look, the presidential want-to-bes on the republican side, yes, they have to go against anybody that the president puts up. just like obama had to do the same thing on roberts and alito. that's a presidential litmus test. i agree with pat, that's something that will happen in a presidential primary. i'm talking about this election cycle and i'm talking about the folks running this year, there is no conversation on the supreme court. and they don't want to have a conversation on social issues. >> i'm not sure that i actually agree with chuck. i think that the white house -- the folks i'm talking to in the white house say that they expect, as pat is saying, a fight no matter who the nominee is. they also know that they're going to get from the left a lot of pressure because stevens was the leader of the left branch of the court. not to appoint somebody who is markedly more conservative than stevens was. >> right. >> i would not still rule out diane wood, who is on the front
page of "the new york times" today. not only is she a liberal, but actually a liberal respected in intellectually by two of the most effective and respected republican jurists in the country, richard posner and easterbrook on the seventh circuit. she would represent geographical diversity. stevens came from chicago. and she would come -- and she's a protestant. let's not forget -- >> there are no protestants left. into c >> there are six catholics and two jewish members and kagan and the other fellow, they're both jewish. it would be the first time you'd never had a protestant on the united states supreme court. >> real quickly, chuck, we have to get but your nbc news' political director. what do you make of the mess out of florida? >> reporter: it's a mess. charlie crist has to lay the case as to why he's leaving his party. by the way, if he's going to pull this off, the first line of
attack for him isn't going to be on the republicans. it's going to have to be on kendrick meek and the democrats. that's where he has to find the extra four or five points he's going to need in order to figure out how to win a three-way race. he has to figure out how to disqualify the democrat in this race. it isn't easy. it's a mess. this scandal, by the way, this credit card scandal, we talked about it yeshgsd i thiterday, is going to cost the republicans the race. it's a real problem. >> chuck todd, thank you very much. we'll see you on "the daily rundown" just after "morning joe" right here on msnbc. mark halperin, thank you as well. >> thank you, mark. >> thank you. he was a counterterrorism adviser under two former presidents. we'll brick in richard clarke, what he says is the next big threat to our national security. [ male announcer ] mix it.
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welcome back to "morning joe." it is just after 7:30 on the east coast. time for a quick look at some of today's top stories. in iraq, the first of three navy s.e.a.l.s to go on trial in case of alleged prisoner abuse today was cleared by a military panel. he was accused of failing to safeguard a prisoner who allegedly masterminded a deadly attack on blackwater security contractors back in 2004. the coast guard is searching the waters off louisiana this morning looking for 11 oil workers. the crew remains missing after a huge explosion rocked an offshore oil rig late tuesday night. authorities are holding out hope that workers escaped in one of the platforms-covered life boats. 17 other workers were injured in the explosion. four are in critical condition. a short time ago, some survivors of the explosion were reuniteded with their families at a hotel just outside of new orleans. about 80% of flights are operating at europe's biggest airports nearly a week after the
disruptions from the volcanic ash in iceland. as airlines scramble to move passengers they are also questioning regulators' response to the crisis. analysts estimate industry losses will top $2 billion from the week of limited service. that's a lot of losses there. coming up next, what is our next big national security threat? we're going to get answers from counterterrorism expert richard clarke. "morning joe" is now broadcasting live on satellite radio. sirius channel 90/xm 120. we'll be right back. i'm ed whitacre, from general motors. a lot of americans didn't agree with giving gm a second chance.
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♪ every day we see waves of cyber thieves trolling for sensitive information. organized crime, the industrial spy and increasingly foreign intelligence services. it's now clear, this cyber threat is one of the most serious economic and national security challenges we face as a nation. >> that was the president last year stressing the importance of cyber security, but is america prepared against a cyber attack? joining us from new york, former counterterrorism adviser under presidents bush and clinton and former special adviser on cyber security, richard clarke. he's the author of the new book "cyber war: the next threat to national security and what to do about it." thanks very much for joining us on the show. >> great to be with you. >> explain how this works at this point.
how are we at risk to a cyber attack and who's threatening us? >> well, there's peace time and there's some potential future war time. today in peace time the chinese government, for the most part, and other countries and criminal gangs, but mainly the chinese government, is hacking its way into every company in this country and stealing their corporate secrets. so, taxpayers and stockholders pay for research and development in pharmaceuticals and aerospace. the chinese come along, hack their way in, steal the information, terror bites. library of congress full of information, and bring it back to china where they pay nothing for the r&d because they steal ours. this is happening all the time. the google story is just the tip of the iceberg. >> and so how would you -- i guess, how would you approach trying to regulate this or confront this problem? >> so, the first issue is, does the united states as a matter of policy think that the government has any role in protecting our
cyberspace? right now the obama administration seems to have taken the position that we're on our own. that the government will protect the pentagon and maybe federal agencies. but the things that could be attacked in a cyber war, things like the electric power grid and pipelines and trains and even our banking system, the obama administration policy seems to be that they have to defend themselves. i think we have to review that decision. first of all, make a decision that we think we should defend our cyberspace. both in peace time against espionage and in some future war scenario against an attack that could actually destroy and disrupt things. >> mark whitaker. >> you're saying that right now washington, the obama administration, is not putting any pressure on the chinese over this issue? if not, why do you think that's the case? i mean, is it because the chinese are such great creditors now they have other issues they think are more important? >> well, i think the secretary of state did for the first time actually raise the issue.
but we don't have a heck of a lot of leverage with the chinese. we should raise it. we should move it up on the agenda. right now high on the agenda is getting them to go along with sanctions against iran and the u.n. security council. we can't just assume we're going to be able to negotiate the chinese out of this. we have to -- i think we have to start defending ourselves. >> pat, we've come a long way from where u.s. agents or british agents would infiltrate the soviet union, risk their life to get secrets. now the chinese just go online and can steal things. it is frightening. >> but you want to ask about the americans. do we have an offensive capability, mr. clarke, and are we using that offensive capability, for example, against iran today? >> well, pat, i think you could assume that we're pretty good at this. we're probably the best in the world at this. but that's not going to do us a heck of a lot of good if the power grid is turned down in this country. you know, if you have a football team that only has a good
offense and has no defense, or you have a football team that's pretty good on both, which one are you going to bet on, pat? >> richard, also if the united states right now, at least, is ahead in technology, ahead in all of the areas that the chinese want, they gain much more from being able to steal information from us than we do from them. >> yeah. it's a really assem tri. there are lot of assem tris in this. in terms of attacking them back in cyberspace, north korea doesn't have any cyberspace. >> katty kay. >> not to sound like a cold warrior but a while ago russia was accused of jamming neighboring countries' cyber systems, particularly banking systems. you talk about china but do you look at russia as well in the book? >> in the book we talk about the two cyber wars that have occurred, and they were both
russia. russia attacking little estonia and little georgia. in estonia they get it as a stand-alone cyber attack. in the georgian case they attacked cyberspace at the exact same moment their tanks rolled into georgia. >> you know, richard, obviously right after 9/11 we had a lot of people saying this should have been prevented. we just didn't think on grand enough scales. we should have called in hollywood producers and said, imagine the worst attack possible. and then maybe we would have been prepared for what happened on 9/11. you give me the hollywood scenario, the worst scenario possible of what happens if the united states doesn't wake up to this growing threat? >> let me give you one scenario which is in the book. we're pushing for u.n. sanctions on iran. let's say we get them. let's say we stop tankers, we have an oil embargo and stop tankers in the gulf. a irans retaliate with
hezbollah, and then the electric power grid in the united states goes out. before it goes out, generators actually explode and high-tension wires melt. trains derail, airplanes can't get off the ground because the air traffic control system doesn't work. and if you're not invested in the international banking system, you can go after our banking system and our stock market. mike mcconnell, former head of u.s. intelligence, said he thinks with all of the money that they've spent on it, the american banking system here in new york, for the most part, is defenseless against a sophisticated cyber attack by another country. >> when it comes to defending ourselves defense cyber attacks are we at the proverbial september 10, 2001 stage? >> well, you know, no one is going to attack us just because they can. just because they have cyber weapons, that's not motivation enough to do it. nations have had -- nine nations have had nuclear weapons for a long time and they haven't used
them. quet is, is there going to be a political circumstance where a nation like a north korea or iran or even remotely china, would want to go after us? if there ever were such a circumstance, right now they could take us to the cleaners because we don't even have a plan to defend our own cyberspace. >> richard clarke, the book is called "cyber war: the next threat to national security and what to do about it." thanks very much for being on the show. >> thank you, richard. coming up, we're now just minutes away from treasury secretary tim geithner will be on the set. it is a grim reality in a struggling economy. drastic budget cuts expected to force hundreds of thousands of teachers out of work. that story when we come back. [ male announcer ] looks clean, doesn't it?
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country's school system. as nbc's ra ham ma ellis tells us, schools across the country facing huge budget cuts that are expected to force hundreds of thousands of teachers out of work this school year. >> two, four, six, eight, you must management. >> reporter: in cleveland, ohio, outraged teachers demand the school district reconsider drastic cuts that would eliminate hundreds of teachers and double the student student-to-teacher ratio. >> 40-1? think about it. >> reporter: in charlotte, north carolina, a dwindling budget has students worried that growing class sizes will compromise their education. >> they told us they were, like, cutting 800 teachers and they're cramming more students, almost 50 students into class. that's just too much. >> reporter: in new york state, as many as 15,000 teachers could be let go. in illinois, 17,000. and in california, 22,000 teachers could be out of a job by june.
in total, the national number could reach 300,000. >> every single state we're seeing massive layoffs. this is not good for education, not good for children, not good for reform. >> reporter: fourth-grade teacher christina juarez has already received her pink slip. >> it's tough with the passion that i have for the children that are in my classroom. those 27 bodies in there. knowing that i won't see them next year when they're off to fifth grade. >> reporter: in springfield, illinois, thousands of teachers turned out to try to save their jobs and programs. music, art, and sports activities all being threatened with elimination. some experts predict that american education must adjust to a new reality. >> our schools have to get used to living on a lot less money than they've had in recent years. >> and one more person to share. >> reporter: a crucial test now facing the nation. how to educate more than 50 million public school students with less. >> rehema ellis reporting for us. joe and mika down in washington.
you heard in the piece there more than 17,000 schoolteachers expected to lose their jobs in the state of new york alone, and today there's a hearing about to start in one hour in manhattan about the future of charter schools in new york state so we'll be watching that very closely. we'll send a camera, of course, to the hearing because there are a few legislators who were enraged in new york state that charter schools are working so effectively. and they want to kill that because they do not want children obviously in the south bronx or in harlem -- they want them to have the same opportunities as children in rich suburbs outside the city. let's talk about laying off teachers right now. pat buchanan, the most popular part of the stimulus bill last year was keeping teachers employed. a good republican friend of mine in santa rosa, california, kept telling me how his wife was going to be fired. i said she still has her job? yeah. barack obama. the stimulus package.
can we have a second stimulus package to protect teachers? >> quite frankly, this is excellent propaganda for it. >> propaganda! >> a disaster in education, it's a powerful, compelling argument, joe, and it's one of the reasons why it's going to be hell for republicans once they get to cutting the budget instead of talking about -- >> that's a problem, mark, for republicans. >> no, absolutely. but this is very frustrating for white house because as you said a big chunk of that original stimulus package was pushed down to the states and to the cities to keep those teachers employed. now they're being laid off. and, look, i think they really thought they had a traction on this education issue. this was going to be a feel-good issue that once they got health care out of the way, turn to this, arne duncan could do all these great things and now this is stepping on the story. yes, maybe they free up more money and that's good politics,
but overall this is good news. >> but may misjudged education. the debate between catholic and private schools is heated. we see it in washington, d.c., the increasing number of children going to charter schools and the outcry that is causing. >> and the desperate parents who just want their children to have a better education. >> the president has been pretty tough on some teaching standards. >> he has. >> he's backed michelle reed in washington, d.c. >> sure has. we've seen the standards of public schools increasing. down in florida, we've seen the prospect of teachers losing tenure. >> teachers unions -- >> great. >> -- the democratic convention on the floor, the delegates, teachers' union, nea, all those things. >> that power versus barack obama, arne duncan, michael bloomberg, al sharpton, newt gingrich. you really do have a growing coalition, bipartisan coalition, pushing for reform in education and trying to -- trying to stop
people who are so regressive and reactionary. >> yep. all right. listen, mark whitaker and kenny k., thank you very much for being with us. >> thank you for joining us in this beautiful studio. >> our home is your home. >> we love it. thank you so much. >> coming up next on "morning joe," the treasury secretary timothy geithner. with expedia, i've got of a perfect girls' weekend. it all starts with having more hotels to choose from. so i can find someplace familiar... or somewhere more unique. nice. then expedia lets me compare dates to find out when i can save the most cash. done and done. we should do this more often.
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it is great to be here with all of you tonight, especially after this event was canceled back in february because of our famous blizzard. what a mess. the streets were so tied up, michael steele and the rnc paid $2,000 to watch. mika, look how beautiful you are. sitting there in your size 2 dress. we have all noticed your passion and dedication to good health. a strong and consistent message of better eating and more exercise. and i would like to say on behalf of all the middle-aged, overweight women in america, just shut up. >> okay.
message received. top of the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." she might have a point. >> she could have a point. >> just being a little strong willed on the issue. i still feel strongly about it. >> "new york times." >> this is the caption. >> but he still won't smile. he won't smile. he's a cranky guy. >> he is. >> tim geithner unveils a new $100 bill, it's 3d, treasury secretary -- smile for us. >> i'm the least cranky guy on the planet. >> wore a tie. that was nice. didn't have to. >> not everybody around here does, you know. >> it's good to have you on the set. thank you for being on the show today. we're going to be talking about financial reform. and i want to just dive right in and ask you a question about whether or not too big to fail is actually really being prevented here. you've got this system set up and some of these proposals that i guess if -- you know, manages the risks so you don't fail and provides this orderly winddown for firms if they do. why not just break them up so they're not so big, so they
don't fail and collapse? >> good bill, tough bill with teethes, constrains risk taking so these guys can't take on this huge risk with leverage and imperil the system again, but if they do, we get to put them out of their misery, organize the elegant funeral for them. >> that's good. not just going to throw dirt on them. let me ask you about the republican charge all that all this bill does is actually perpetuate bailouts for generations to come. is that nonsense? >> it is nonsense. that's a technical word, nonsense. not a chance. >> right. >> we will not support a bill that carries that risk. again, end too big to fail, to end this kind of mess, you have to do two key things. one is you have to prevent them from taking on these risks ahead of the boom, but if they somehow evade those protections and they do it again, you've got to put them out of their misery. that's the best way to do it.
otherwise, if you don't do that, investors and executives will run their firms with the expectation that the government will come in and protect them from their mistakes in the future and that's not something we're prepared to allow. >> six banks with 63% of the nation's gross domestic product. they're bigger than ever, are they not? >> they are big, but we're going to limit their size and limit how much risk they can take. here's a good way to think about it. right now under the laws of the land, a bank can't take more than 10% of the nation's bank deposits. that's a good rule. it's not quite tough enough because if you fund yourselves through other means, without bank deposits, you fund yourselves in the markets, then you can get bigger than that. we're suggesting we have an overall cap similar like that to prevent the risks that they get too big. >> so let's say -- i'll make up a bank's name so we don't cause any concerns. let's say the first national bank of joe, which is about as big as we'll say bank of america, collapses a year and a half from now. >> i think people wiould have a
lot of confidence in a bank named that. >> i think so, too. but say for some reason they associated with another guy other than me. what happens? the real concern is, say, bank of america went under two years from now. we know the federal government would have to step in. under this bill, what would happen? >> all right. let me step back for a second, joe. financial systems are going to have failures. there's going to be crashes. that's a necessary, probably desirable thing. >> right. >> again, you don't want people operating with the expectation they get protected. what you want to do is make sure you have a system in which windows failures happen, they don't cause collateral damage, they don't cause -- they don't inflict pain on the innocent. they don't imperil good institutions run conservatively. what you want to do is if there's a fire in a firm, you want to draw a circle, put a fire breaker around that and prevent the fire from jumping the fire break and ip feking the rest of the system. that's the model this bill
seeks. >> how does it do that? >> two key things. if, again, that firm at the center of the fire, it's made a bunch of mistakes and misjudgments, you want to put the fire out there, do that safely, not have the taxpayer exposed. then you want to make sure you can draw a ring around it and protect the rest of the system. >> what prevents the fire and what is the ring? >> what prevents it from spreading? so we make sure that -- because if you look at the numbers, obviously you know this better than anybody else, if you just look at the numbers of the losses in 2008, if it had been contained, if this collateral risk had not been chopped up it would have hurt but it wouldn't have taken the economy and the world down. >> in a panic, a financial panic, when fear spreads, they'll run from any risk. and that's what happened in this context, is that people looked at the scale of mistakes made but they couldn't judge really who was strong, who was weak. they ran from everybody, started
to withdraw their deposits from all institutions, strong and weak. and that's what brought the system crashing down and almost took the economy off the cliff. again, you want to have a situation where you make everything stronger ahead of the boom. in the military, they use this phrase, they want to -- they want to act left of the boom, ahead of the guys who were planting the ieds or the bombs in the roads. so you want to make sure that you're limiting leverage, forcing firms to run with thicker cushion, shock absorbers. >> so we're not going to have a 40-1 leveraging -- >> exactly. that's helpful. if one of them messes up, all the rest of them will be much stronger so, that's important. also you need to be able to do -- you know, we call this foaming the runway. you need to make sure you're spreading a little foam around the rest of the institutions so that the fire can't infect them in a panic. >> so you mentioned earlier in this interview the overall cap on size. are you talking about the size of the banks? >> yes. >> okay. so the six banks that hold so
much right now, are they oversized? >> you want to limit the risk. again, they could they could get to a size as a share of the overall economy they would be too big, but the key thing is to constrain what they do. >> are they too big and is there a cap on that size? are they oversized? >> caps to make sure they can't get so big they would imperil the system. let me do it this way. the great depression was a small-bank crisis. you could have -- if you have a system where you have a bunch of weak institutions no matter how many you have, if you let them get weak, that can be as damaging as risks from large banks. bear stearns and lehman brothers who contributed to this mess were not very large institutions. what matters is risk and leverage, and if you contain that effectively, you can make these less probable, less damaging when they happen again. we're not going to prevent all failures, prevent a system that doesn't allow them to fail. you don't want the mistakes they make to damage the savings of americans, you know, cost
millions of americans to lose their jobs, lose their homes. that's the basic obligation. >> it seems to me, mr. secretary, what enraged americans so much wasn't just the bailout of the big banks. it was the fact that the people that were running the big banks into the ground were able to stay on board and got money from the federal government and then were able to invest in a depressed market, which they knew was going to turn around because the federal government was going to back them up. does this bill ensure that if i'm running the first national bank of joe, when i drive it into the ground and then it gets bailed out by this fund that's going to be funded by banks -- >> not bailed out. if you, joe, the first national bank of joe, do what a bunch of those firms did in the future and the government has to step in -- >> i'm gone. >> you're gone. >> and my board's gone. >> your board's gone. your equity holders are gone. and we will -- >> everybody loses all at once. >> right. and we will put you out of your misery and we'll break you up and sell you and do that in a
sensible way. so, again, your failure doesn't infect everybody else. >> so if we had, again -- it's not going to repeat itself, but let's say what happened after september 15th, 2008, happens again, those banks that were bailed out by the federal government would cease to exist as they were before -- >> let's do it this way. say lehman and aig. so if we were replaying history and those two firms were at the edge of the abyss, with this bill, we have the ability to come in earlier, step in, replace the management, replace the board, wipe out equity holders. >> right. >> and dismember safely. >> which, by wiping out equity holders, too, though, i think that requires more responsibility by shareholders who understand we're not going to be able to take these ridiculous risks and be rewarded with 20%, 25% returns in the
boom years, that if this collapses, if this goes off the cliff, i lose all my money. so maybe, just maybe, that pushes more responsibility from the shareholders to the board to the ceo. >> it should. it should. again, this crisis happened not just because, you know, interest rates were too low for too long or there were big gaps in oversight by the government. it happened because boards of directors did not do an adequate job on behalf of shareholders in constraining management from taking big risks. >> let me ask you about that really quickly. mika, you're laughing because -- >> i'm going to -- >> fin thish and you say let us pray. >> let us pray. >> so it seems to me, you know, because i'm a small government conservative, i don't want the federal government getting involved in a lot of things. but i'll tell you the idea i love is self-policing by the corporations by empowering shareholders. it seems to me if shareholders had more of a direct ability to tell ceos, no, you're not going
to get paid $248 million if you screw up our company, it seems to me you would -- the market would more control what the board does, which would more control what ceos do. do you support a strengthening of shareholder rights? >> absolutely. and mika, let me explain it, one important part of this bill would do the following, would force firms to submit to their shareholders for a vote, the compensation structure, the compensation package given their executives. >> it still does that. >> i like that. >> it still does that. it's helpful. not just shine a light on it but give shareholders more leverage to say we think you're paying them too much or design paying in a way that rewards them from taking risks but bo protects them from losses. >> i heard you talking about we need legislation that has real teeth, prevents another collapse. i'm not very good in math but i'm looking at these six big banks and the potential for them to run into trouble again and many saying that this doesn't -- this bill and what you all are
proposing does not prevent this from happening again. you've got this fund paid for by the banks for $50 million. >> let me say it this way. if this was such a -- if this was a weak package, if it was an empty bill, it had no teeth, if it had huge carveouts that would protect firms, their existing businesses, then these firms would not be spending millions of dollars fighting it, it wouldn't take us 15 months to get to this position. this is the most sweeping set of reforms we've ever considered as a country since the great depression, and it is very tough, it is sweeping, it's comprehensive and that's why it has been so hard, frankly, for us to get the congress to the point they're about to adopt it. if it was so generous, the financial industry, this would have been done a year ago in a heartbeat and it would have been easy. >> i still don't understand why these banks are allowed to be this big and if that's bigger than the cap on size that you all want to put in place.
>> that's the purpose of a cap. >> okay. so the $50 billion that i guess is paid for by the banks, this fund, is that enough given the the size of these banks if one, two, or three of them were to collapse? >> the fund is an important issue, but what we all agree on is that we don't want the taxpayer exposed to bear any costs to putting out these financial fires in the future. so what this bill does, and we'll make sure any bill the president signs does, is make sure we have a system for putting them out of existence without the taxpayer paying. that's the key thing. now, if the government is exposed to any risk of loss in the future, t gets to put out some future financial fire, we'll do it in a way where the banks end up paying for any losses. this is what we've done with t.a.r.p., too, which everybody hated but was remarkably effective for stimulus for the economy, critical in getting growth back on track and we have the vast bulk of that money repaid from banks for the taxpayer, more than $200 billion. we still have some exposure of
risk to loss because this was a terrible crisis, but we're going to make sure congress passes the president's proposed fee on risk, the banks are the ones who pay, not the taxpayers. >> the big wall street banks for the most part have paid back their money, the federal government's actually going to make money on interest by that and far lot of other reasons. when are you guys going to tackle fannie and freddie? is that next? >> we're going to tackle them -- >> a colossal mess. >> colossal mess and mistake, never should have happened. we're going to step back and look at the entire housing finance market. it's not just fannie and freddie. there are a lot of other things the government does in the housing market that contribute to this. we'll propose to congress next year not just a deal with fannie and freddie and we'll change that system completely but make sure the rest of the things the government does in housing markets, make housing markets more affordable but also more stable. >> let's floouf housing to taxes. obviously there's a lot of chatter out there about a proposed fat tax. do you oppose -- do you oppose a
vat tax? >> the president does not support but we all recognize -- does not support, that but we all recognize that our deficits are too high, we're going to have to bring them down. it's actually very helpful to hear today republicans talking about the needs to bring down deficits, to go back to living within our mieans. we had a long period of time where people on the other side of the aisle, no offense, said deficits don't matter. those days are over. everybody recognizes now our deficits are too high. and the president has laid out a tough set of proposals that will be politically difficult proposals to cut those deficits dramatically. >> does the president understand, though -- and i agree with you completely. republicans have been so reckless over the past decade. the president does understand his own budgets according to the head of the cbo and according to ben bernanke, are unsustainable. >> george w. bush doubled the debt from about -- as you know,
just saying to the aud indians to about $11.5 trillion. barack obama's budgets over the next decades double that to about $20 trillion. the president knows that's not sustainable. >> those numbers aren't right. >> what are they, then? if they're not right, what are they? >> i'll explain. what the president's budget does is take our deficits. we're now 10% over gdp, 10% of what the economy produces every year, and cults those by more than half over the next five years. so it gets them down so they're under 4% of the economy in five years, over that period of time. >> what growth is presented there? >> it's a very good conservative growth forecast. >> 3%? 2%? >> it's a -- the u.s. economy normally grows somewhere between 2.5% and 3% so, it's a pretty conservative growth forecast in there. >> between 2.5% and 3%. >> but doesn't get us there. what gets there is a combination of growth, the economy recovers,
revenue starts to come back which you're already seeing. if you saw yesterday, we're already starting to reduce the amount we have to borrow relative to what most people expected because things are coming back. >> and i want to get to the good news. what's the number at the end of the decade? >> for an economy like the united states, we have to get these deficits down to around 3% of gdp within a five-year window. if we do that, then we'll stabilize our overall debt burden at levels that are acceptable, it won't kill the economy going forward. the president's budget takes us almost all the way there, and it's sort of a combination of making sure the emergency things in the recovery act actually end when the economy recovers. we don't want to sustain those. growth helps a little bit. the president has proposed some difficult measures like letting the bush tax cuts for 2% of the richest americans in the country to expire as scheduled, range of other things that will help get us further. and this is very important to do, and again it's very helpful now, i think, frankly, to hear
people across the political spectrum to say together that we're living within our means, we're beyond our means, it's not sustainable, have to bring them down. >> the president understands that his own budget proposals, then, that he's made in the past are going to have to be cut. >> remember, the president did convince the republicans to join him in a bipartisan fiscal commission, taking a page out of ronald way rreagan's solution t social security and get a bunch of smart statesmen together to step back from politics and figure out how we go the additional distance. >> do you have confidence that republicans who spent too much over the past ten years, democrats who i believe are spending too much money right now, and most americans believe that, do you believe that there is a political will in congress and at the white house to make the massive spending cuts that -- including the class entitlements and also raise taxes that are going to be required to make sure we done turn into greece two years from
now? >> absolutely at the white house and the american people will insist we do it. they're very sensible people. their view is we're tightening our belts in a crisis, we make choices when we go too far and the government should do the same thing. >> are you concerned about china, the fact that the united states of america is so beholden to china? >> we're not beholden to china, absolutely not. we have a good economic relationship with china. they buy a huge amount of u.s. goods. that's very helpful to the united states. we benefit from that a lot. and u.s. experts to china are actually growing very rapidly now, but we're going to work very hard to make sure that our firms that compete this china, compete with china around the world and the united states, compete on a level playing field and we're working hard to encourage the chinese in that direction. >> and let's talk about the economy. i'm encouraged. we're here every day, and it seems that the united states' economy is stubbornly fighting back against all the things that have been inflicted upon it over
the past decade. good news from gm yesterday, paying back part of their loan. good news on consumer confidence. it looks like we're starting to see some of the green shoots come out. >> we're getting stronger, absolutely, faster, stronger than we thought, than anybody expected, faster than most of the other major economies that got caught up in this mess and that's because we're a strong, resilient country, we have strong, competitive company ace cross all industries and you're right to say it's encouraging. but this is the toughest economy most americans have seen in generations. it's still very hard. it's going to take a while to heal what's broken. we'll keep working on it. all right. >> quickly, the president's speech today on or near wall street, what is he expected to say? he's going to lay out the basic case that this is a just cause for comprehensive reform. if you listen carefully in washington, you guys are good students of washington, people want a strong bill across the board. you see republicans want to be
for a strong bill. >> mr. secretary, thanks for being with us. and next time you come back, feel free not to wear a tie. >> nice to be here. >> thanks for coming in. he probably doesn't sleep given the job he's got. good to see you. >> always great to see you. up next, is the tea party the real deal or is it strengthening? next in the "politico playbook." also, the new cover of "time" magazine. "morning joe" has your first exclusive first look. first, here's bill karins with a check of the forecast. good morning, mika. i thought this was pretty cool. pictures from yesterday, this looks like snow being plowed, that is actually a hailstorm that is being plowed in denver, outside of denver in colorado yesterday, severe storms brought up to 2 inches of hail. airports, fog a problem in d.c., 45-minute delays, also 45-minute delay ls in philadelphia. once the fog clear ls it will be a beautiful thursday afternoon from d.c. to philly. watch out for a stray storm or two in new england. southern california, it is
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let us pray.
let us pray. if we could all bow our heads, please. and give -- it's a southern trick to get you to shut up. thank you. and keep shutting up or i'm going to deliver a sermon for those -- >> it worked. >> it worked. lamar alexander's idea. that was the national washington press club foundation congressional dinner. >> they were very loud. >> yes, they were loud, but you found the way to silence. >> kept saying let us pray. >> i'm going to take the tip. >> like no other audience. i've seen them talk through entire programs where you can't hear the speaker erspeaker. we were able to hold them with that old prayer trick but
washington audiences are tough. >> the most inconsiderate crowd in the world. >> thank you, pat. >> i've never seen anything like it. >> no. >> but they were polite last night. >> well, you did a very good job. i'm not sure i would have done that, but it worked for you. with us now, staff writer for politico, patrick gavin. here with political coe's "morning playbook." >> patrick, great to see you and great to see you there last night. mike gallen, he's on the cover of something. not to be outdone by his colleague, mike allen, on the coverage of "the new york times," patrick has landed on the cover of "cat fancy." >> show him the monitor again. >> oh, patrick. that's terrific. we're proud of you. >> how many cats do you have? >> i was aiming for high times but, you know, "cat fancy" is the next best thing. >> you came up just a little bit
short, my man. maybe next month. patrick, democrats are accusing republicans of using dreaded frank luntz talking points. the republicans are saying, frank luntsz, who's that? explain. >> frank, you either love him or you don't love him. he's a gop pollster, he tries to shape republican talking points. he's described part of the financial regulation reform effort on behalf of the obama administration as a bailout and he wants to tie it in to the bank bailouts. he is trying to give republicans to use that to get to kill it. democrats, very interestingly, are actually promoting this. they're promoting the fact that frank luntz is trying to be the man behind the curtain. it's interesting on a number of levels. if democrats are successful, they can effectively kill one of the gop's major talking points. they want the american public to think what they say is organic, they just thought this up at the top of their head, there's no plan, they're speaking from heart. if they can prove they're just
repeating talking points, which republicans are trying to deny and distance themselves from luntz, what else are republicans going to say? every time they say bailout, democrats will just say you're just doing what frank luntz says. it will be interesting to see how the language on this debate gets shaped. >> the most interesting part is 99.9% of americans have no idea who frank luntz is. >> right. >> even though frank is a big player in washington, d.c., and also obviously with consulting. let's talk about the tea parties. we understand from mike allen that jonathan martin has filed his one-story vermont -- >> good, he got through it. >> and he's got a helper on it. talking about the tea parties that their importance may be overexaggerated by mainstream media. he was asleep at the switch last year on the same story. >> yeah. what's interesting is now people have started saying, you know, 2009, the media guy sort of pegged is not covering the tea parties enough. now 2010 so people are wondering are we covering it too much? tax day around the country, a lot of rallies sort of topped
out at a thousand. in d.c., they had around 10,000. look back at say the anti-war rallies during the bush administration where you had hundreds of thousands, the immigration rerallies, hundreds of thousands, yet the tea party is obviously getting a lot more coverage. i think part is journalists trying to fill copy. a lot of them are trying to overcompensate for what a lot of people say is a liberal mainstream media by making sure they cover this important part of politics. but now it's really up to the tea party, especially these midterms, to really prove, do they have some power behind their effort. they obviously can take a little credit for scott brown, look at virginia and new jersey, say they played a role there. but 2010 will be the big make it or break it moment for them to see if they can back this all up. >> patrick gavin, thank you very much. >> thank you, patrick. >> meow, meow, meow. >> good to see you last night at that black-tie gala. >> he was wearing jeans and sneakers. >> sneakers. >> joe, you looked fan it is a
nick your dress, just so you know. >> thank you so much. >> coming up, new weekly jobless claims are due out any minute now. a check on business before the bell with cnbc's erin burnett. "morning joe" now broadcasting live on satellite radio, sirius channel 90 xm 120. the amount of technology in today's cars is like something out of a spaceship. which is why, mechanics nowadays are more like rocket scientists. they have to be. the technicians at ford and lincoln mercury dealerships are highly trained. they really do know their stuff. and, they have all the parts to make sure the job gets done right.
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quellcom back to "morning joe." new weekly jobless numbers are back. let's get them from cnbc superstar erin burnett. >> good morning. >> how is it looking? >> we had a drop in new jobless claims right exactly in line with expectations but expectations were for an improvement. so we did see that. keep in mind, though, that we're still above the levels you would see in a healthy labor mark, as in a labor market that's regularly adding jobs. again, this is directionally going where we want to go, it is in line with expectations so nothing to get pans in a bunch
about, but joe, still. we'll get the big jobs number next week, so this is the last week that goes into that. we hope for continued gains. >> we're 9.7% right now. do economists expect to drop that number to 9.6% or lower? >> it is hard to say. unemployment matters to headlines around the country and the number that everyone remembers but the number that matters is the payroll number, plus or minus, 150,000 job, whatever it is, and that's what they'll be focusing on. a lot of lumpiness in the break because of spring vacations and easter. it will be unclear exactly how much to read into it. so far so good. we're exactly in line. the other thing that came out this morning, you all may find this interesting, producer prices. this is a great conundrum in the economy, how much do prices go up? then they strip out the cost of
eating and buying gas and say that's the number that matters. so on that number there was no inflation at all, we were up 0.1%. the number that includes food and gas, both of which saw huge gains in prices, hurting americans where it matters, a 6% gain in prices compared to a year ago on that front. that's the biggest jump since september 2008. economist are going to say, who cares, strip those things out but for most americans you don't strip those things out. >> that's why it matters most. tim geithner was here earlier in the hour talking about how he believed the economy is slowly but surely turning around? do you agree and does the street agree good days may be ahead? >> generally speaking they do. it still comes down to the comments out of the conference calls in earnings season and we're right in the heat of it here. they've all been generally positive, cautiously positive, but more positive than we've seen in the past couple year, frankly. jamie diamond still the most optimistic of all of them, but yes. and you're seeing revenue growth, joe. can't fake that. i want one last thing here,
mika. this is interesting. in that core number that barely went up, it may have gone down if it weren't for this -- jewelry prices. jewelry prices were up 4.9% from last year. that is the biggest gain in jewelry prices in the united states since september of 1982. >> wow. >> isn't that something? >> look into that. >> i don't know. stuck out to me. interesting. >> ha! fascinating. international superstar erin burnett, thanks a lot. i tell you what, i am cautiously optimistic on this economy. i think it's turning around. >> i -- yes. it seems -- >> slowly, stubbornly. >> seems to feel like it might be. >> discretionary spending. >> that's discretionary. >> producer prices are 6%. if that indicates where consumer prices are going, that would indicate where the fed would be going, which would be tightening. if it follows. >> all right. coming up next, "morning joe" has a first look at the new cover of "time" magazine. plus more with pat buchanan.
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if you, joe, the first national bank of joe, do what a bunch of those firms d did in the future and the government has to step in -- >> i'm gone. >> you're gone. >> my board's gone. >> your board's gone, your equity holders are gone and we will -- >> everybody loses all at once. >> right, and we will put you out of your misery and we will break you up and sell you and do
that in a sensible way so, again, your failure doesn't infect everybody else. >> that sounds like that would work. too big to fail. going to be hard to break me up. so, "time" magazine, i'm very excited about what's on the cover of "time" magazine because we have pat buchanan here -- >> right. >> -- to break it down for us. >> here with us now "time's" editor at large, nancy gibbs, here to reveal the latest issue of "time" magazine. what is on the cover, nancy? >> the cover of "time" is the 50th anniversary of the birth control pill, which has been called the most invention of the 20th century, which makes it all the more interesting it's probably also the most misunld. >> we're talking about the social changes that came along with the pill. it's remarkably important in the development of modern culture. >> well, you know, that's what's so interesting, joe, because i wept into this thinking that 1960, the fda approved the pill and the next thing you know you
have sex and the single girl and the summer of love and make love not war and the whole great bacchanal of the 1960s and the pill is somehow unleashed and that's actually not true. it's kind of a logical fallacy because two things arrived at the same time one caused the other. all through the '60s, you had to be married to get the pill. even planned parenthood clinics would not give it to single women. now, there were work-arounds. you could borrow your friend's engagement ring and go in and claim you were about to get married. one college girl brought a note from their minister. but the first ten years while we were seeing this great social change was actually for married women. i kept on discovering all of these sort of cultural conventions about what we think the pill meant that actually turn out not to be true. >> and what about i guess steps forward for women in the professional world? i mean, has it impacted a woman's earning power and i guess control over her own future?
>> that is where i think the importance can't possibly be overstated, because once in the 1970s you have title ix, you have colleges and universities opening their doors to women, women being able to finally go in large numbers to law school and business school, the pill made an enormous difference in making it easier for them to control and sort of sequence their lives, their education and their professional ambitions with their desire to start a family. the pill gave much more control over that to women and that's where once those doors were opened the pill made it much easier for women to go through them. >> pat buchanan talked about life before and after the pill. >> well, there was a sexual revolution in the 1960s, joe, no doubt about it. that's very interesting. it was only applied to married women at the time. but if you take abortion, 1973, 50 million since then, and then you take the pill, this explains why the entire western world and now japan and korea have birthrate which is will not enable their populations to
survive much into the next century -- >> italy, germany, japan, russia, the birthrates are unsustainable. this is going to cost as much as the baby boom in 1946 forward. >> oh, yes. >> this has led to a different phenomenon. >> you take a -- there's about -- every single western country i think for 30 years has had a birthrate below replacement level. the japanese, as i said, are going to lose 25 million people between now and 250050. south korea will start losing them in the middecade. germany, russia, ukraine will lose 60 million. the russians lose half a million to a million people a year. that's why i argue against these guys saying we have to stand up to the russians in georgia. forget it. they're not going to be a problem for the united states. frankly, they're going to be a hellish problem because there are fewer and fewer russians in siberia. the chinese will be moving in there. >> back here at home, nancy gibbs, the impact of the effect of the pill over so many years
on the lives of american women and the american family, we talk about some of the opportunities that have opened up because of it, but are there pitfalls? are there negatives to it? >> well, you know, there are social conservatives who in the last ten years have been more inclined to highlight what they think the downside is. they think that it undermines marriage, that if you think that having children is a fundamental part is what the bible calls a one-flesh union, that the pill has been bad for a marriage, that it contributed to promiscuity and adultery and sort of moral breakdown. that argument obviously was one of the forces that was driving a lot of policy changes we saw in the last ten years of having more funding focused on abstinence, education, rather than family planning. so there has been real policy fallout because of the arguments that we're having 50 years after the pill was introduced, and access to contraception is still very much a very controversial issue.
even though this is something we have lived with and incorporated into our lives and discussions now for five decades. >> nancy gibbs, thank you very much. >> thank you, nancy. >> good to have you on the show. >> the church still opposes the pill. >> the catholic church opposes artificial contraception still. that's exactly right. the real break came in 1931 when the anglican church came out in favor of it and almost all the protestant churches went that way. suddenly they're the ones having real problems. >> okay. >> when we come back, who has the time or energy to stave planet? our next guest shows us a has e hassle-free way of a lazy environmentalist. >> okay. sounds good. >> maybe that would work for you. we'll be right back with more "morning joe." ♪
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vo: download the glovebox app free at looks like you can fry your whole kitchen. >> propane tank for lights for the kitchen, propane, char broiler here, propane flat top. >> like a grill. >> griddle. >> griddle. >> you can see i spend a lot of
time in the kitchen. >> over here is the coffeemaker and the microwave. >> the thought never occurred to me but why do you have the microwave? >> for microwave popcorn, for movies at night. >> it's not really camping if there's no fire and no smores. >> camping with a microwave. the lazy environmental list where host josh dorfman tries to convince families to go green. he'll try to convince us this morning. great to have you here. >> great to be here. >> you're talking lazy environmentalists. what's the message you want to get across to us? >> really i'm saying a lot of people care about the planet, most of us do, but we're busy, we've got a lot of competing interests, value, and as much as we want to go green sometimes we're a little lazy. so what i focus on is finding the best solutions, the most cutting-edge green solutions to see if they work in the real world and then framing them in a way so people get excited about them and say, yes, i'm going to do this not just because it's in the environment's interest but also because it's in my own
interests. not necessarily laudable but it works the best. >> you say a lot of it is about the language, the way you communicate the green message. we hear about it in such broad terms, it's hard to connect sometimes to our lives. how do you do that? >> the first thing i tend to focus on with people is small things that can earn them money or save them money anl reduce their environmental impact. two quick ones. first a website called, which if you have old cell phones or laptops or electronics in your house, you don't want to put them in the landfill because it's e waste, it can be toxic. go on to, type in the model number, gazelle shows you the residual value, what it's worth. they'll send you a check. you get paid to recycle. a that's like the good kind of recycling. >> right. >> the other thing i would say is something most of rus familiar with, even like a brita pitcher, a lot of us have one in our house. one filter can replace as many
as 300 16.9-ounce disposable water bottles. you get rid of that waste and it doesn't go to the landfill but you save money. you're getting additional benefits. save money or earn money. if that's what going green is about, a lot of people will be on board. >> sam waterson was talking about his documentary on msnbc torrent, talking about the peaks and the valleys about the public's concern of gas prices, oil will go up, we want hybrid cars. is it frustrating to you as someone who's trying to get the message across that people just tune in and tune out for a long time? >> you know, i come to this from actually i was in sort of that activist place that i would say far while. i was angry. i was scared. and i just came to realize that unless you talk about things that people perceive in their own self-interest, you will not get through to them. so my frustration actually is with sometimes the green business community.
you know, i want to see better solutions. i want to go back to people and say, okay, i get it, you've got kids to send to school, you've got a job, all these worries. green may not be the top one, but i've got these awesome solutions and you're going to love them because they're going to fit your life or improve your life. i want to see better solutions from the entrepreneurs and the innovators because that's how we'll accelerate change. interesting. for the record, you frown upon bringing a microwave camping. bad idea? >> i am lazy and i'm also an environmentalist so half of me says i'd love to go camping like this and then i'm like wait a second, this is the worst thing i've seen in nature. >> seems excessive. josh, doing a great job. thanks for talking to us. catch season two of "the lazy environmentalist" tuesdays at 8:00 on the sundance channel. thanks. >> thank you. when we come back, what did we learn today? [ female announcer ] it's red lobster's festival of shrimp...
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